Don Bluth: Disney Legend?

I'm sure most of you know about Don's work during his time at Disney. And we all know that he left Disney, taking a team of animators along with him to eventually make the very film that this forum is dedicated to. But I've been wondering if, because of his early contributions to Disney as an animator with such classics like Robin Hood and The Rescuers, will he ever be named a Disney Legend? Or does he have just as much chance as Jeffrey Katzenberg?

A friend mentioned he played an important role in Pete's Dragon, mainly animating Elliot (dragon) with his crew with a horrible schedule that they had to meet, giving everything and more like overtime every night, and in the end, no credit or thanks. The story on this site guesses it was probably the start of Bluth considering to leave Disney:

http://www.cataroo.com/DBpetes.html

I heard That Don and Crew left Disney while working on "The Fox and The Hound" is that true?

I heard That Don and Crew left Disney while working on "The Fox and The Hound" is that true?

Yup.

http://www.vanden-eykel.com/nimharchive/articles/var1979.htm

Here's some photos of Don and Gary at Disney circa 1977


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Don Bluth in the middle photo working on "The Small One"


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Gary Goldman in the top left


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Don in the top photo speaking to the group of animators, most of them would go on to work on "Banjo" and "NIMH"

I found Don's name in the credits of Robin Hood

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I think it's a long shot, but not as much of a long shot as it was even a few years ago. It used to be that Disney had a pretty clear grudge against Bluth for setting up a studio/studios that competed with Disney and even having a few financial successes at a time when Disney was not doing so well at the box office. There was a time when Disney made sure that they had an animated film in theaters to compete every time one of Bluth's movies came out, whether it was a new movie or a rerelease of a classic Disney film.

But at this point, since Bluth isn't really competing with Disney anymore, the wound may have healed over a bit. Plus, a lot of the people who are in positions of power at Disney animation now are Bluth's contemporaries and people who understood why he and his team left Disney. Heck, John Lasseter is one of the guys in change of Disney animation now and he was fired from Disney around the same time for pretty much the same reasons: that Disney at the time wasn't interested in giving the younger animators much freedom to do anything or take any risks.

My guess is it's still not going to happen and Disney can probably find any number of people who never started up a competing animation studio to honor as Legends before Bluth. But the air may have cleared a little and maybe someday, Disney will see fit to honor Bluth's contributions to the studio.

I read an interview with Don (I'll see if I can find it) that when he and Gary went some animator convention they bumped two senior animators at Disney. Conversation was a little awkward. Don asked them what they thought of Secret of NIMH. They replied it was "ok" and that they felt it was "too busy". And that was the last Don and Gary saw of them.

On his artistic prowess alone, I think he'd deserve the title. I mean, he's about as good as the Nine Old Men were. It's only his...unfortunate run in the 90s that really crippled him.

And ChrisS, I'd definitely read that interview if you ever find it!

Here's an interesting read. The blog is from one of the animators that worked at Disney.
http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/
http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2007/09/1977-mouse-house.html

Edit: You may want to stay away from it. Kinda anti-Bluth atmosphere

Here's an interesting read. The blog is from one of the animators that worked at Disney.
http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/
http://animationguildblog.blogspot.com/2007/09/1977-mouse-house.html

Edit: You may want to stay away from it. Kinda anti-Bluth atmosphere

lireads some of the commentsli Wow. So that's what Disney fan-boys look like. ;) It doesn't look like the author is particularly one way or the other, though.

lireads some of the commentsli Wow. So that's what Disney fan-boys look like. ;) It doesn't look like the author is particularly one way or the other, though.

I both laughed and died a little on the inside when I read this little jewel:

Speaking about NIMH:No...it was pretty awful. Bizarre character designs, ugly backgrounds...

I have to wonder if he even watched the movie. One of things I'm SURE was universal on the reviews was that SON looked exceedingly masterful artistically.

Your not kidding, this is almost as bad as Star Trek VS. Star Wars, if you'll pardon the comparison.

Oh, and then there's this:

The animation looks like the animators studied animation instead of real life.

You don't say...I didn't know animators didn't have to study animation.

I read an interview with Don (I'll see if I can find it) that when he and Gary went some animator convention they bumped two senior animators at Disney. Conversation was a little awkward. Don asked them what they thought of Secret of NIMH. They replied it was "ok" and that they felt it was "too busy". And that was the last Don and Gary saw of them.

I'd be really interested to see that too, particularly if they mention who these "senior animators" were. From what I understand, part of the problem that led to Don and Gary and the rest of Bluth's crew leaving was that the Nine Old Men and a lot of Walt's other go to guys were starting to retire and instead of promoting the enthusiastic and talented young generation of animators to the positions they had vacated, Disney basically promoted these guys who had been at the studio for a long time, but never really had what it took to be directors and key animators and the like. So if the people who told them that "NIMH" was merely "OK" were some of those guys, I doubt Don and Gary would have cared. But if it was two of the Nine Old Men, that comment might have been a lot more painful to hear.

The comments on the blog article, I'll agree that there are a lot of strong opinions being thrown around without much to back them up. Though I'm equally puzzled by the comments arguing that "Rock-a-Doodle" was the pinnacle of Bluth's career. (No offense meant to any fans of that film in the house, but I think it's kind of a mess.)

I admit I used to be a heavily biased Disney fangirl when I was younger. It was actually "Rock-a-Doodle" that convinced me that I shouldn't bother with non-Disney films. I was young, Disney was pretty much dominating theatrical animation at the time, and I didn't have the internet or Netflix to show me what else was out there. It took a while, but I eventually got to the point where I'll give pretty much anything a shot if someone gives me a sincere recommendation for it. As I see it, if I get bogged down in these "wars" that are largely just fans arguing and not really based in the industry itself, I'll miss out on a lot of good animation, which I don't want to do.

Oh, and then there's this:

The animation looks like the animators studied animation instead of real life.

You don't say...I didn't know animators didn't have to study animation.

Well, the point being made is about studying animation instead of real life rather than in addition to it. If you're going to draw or animate a mouse character, your best bet is to look at a real mouse rather than Mickey or Mrs. Brisby. Lots of animators get inspired by other animation, but if they're not going to the source and observing real life, the result ends up feeling more like a copy of another animator's work.

I don't really think it's a valid point in this case, but that's the idea.

Well, the point being made is about studying animation instead of real life rather than in addition to it. If you're going to draw or animate a mouse character, your best bet is to look at a real mouse rather than Mickey or Mrs. Brisby. Lots of animators get inspired by other animation, but if they're not going to the source and observing real life, the result ends up feeling more like a copy of another animator's work.

I don't really think it's a valid point in this case, but that's the idea.

Put in THAT context it makes much more sense; I was referring to the actual process of animation. By my reading, it sounded like he was saying they studied the actual ART of animation rather than Real Life. It makes it sound oxymoronic.

Now if he'd but "others' animation" it would have sounded much better.

The new team of animators were definitely not getting the credit or the support they deserved. Some criticized "The Fox & The Hound" (which is actually along with Robin Hood, Great Mouse Detective, Rescuers Down Under is my favorite Disney movie) for having young guys animating the film.
In the late 70's Disney had animators who would later make great films. Glen Keane, who directed the bear sequence in The Fox & The Hound, would later go onto direct Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, and Aladdin.
Tim Burton was also one of the animators. But he is not credited on any film, he mostly did in-between work.
"While working as a conceptual artist at Walt Disney Animation Studios, Tim Burton found himself two allies in the shape of Disney executive Julie Hickson, and Head of Creative Development Tom Wilhite. The two were impressed with Burton's unique talents and while not "Disney material," they felt he deserved to be given respect. As such, in 1982, Wilhite gave Burton $60,000 to produce an adaptation of a poem Burton had written titled Vincent."
Burton would leave Disney after his concept drawings were rejected for Black Cauldron and make live action films.

Though I'm equally puzzled by the comments arguing that "Rock-a-Doodle" was the pinnacle of Bluth's career. (No offense meant to any fans of that film in the house, but I think it's kind of a mess.) I admit I used to be a heavily biased Disney fangirl when I was younger. It was actually "Rock-a-Doodle" that convinced me that I shouldn't bother with non-Disney films

I can only wonder what you thought of Troll in Central Park then :P

I can only wonder what you thought of Troll in Central Park then :P

I haven't seen it yet, but I'm not particularly hopeful that I'm going to discover that it was of Bluth's career highlights.

A buddy of mine and I were watching all of the Bluth movie trailers that are included with the "Banjo the Woodpile Cat" DVD and it was rather depressing to watch the visual quality of the films steadily decline (though there's an upswing with "Anastasia" and "Titan A.E.", which at least look good.) "Rock-a-Doodle" at least retains some level of visual quality. From the little I've seen "A Troll in Central Park" just looks like an ugly, ugly movie.

You're not missing anything, believe me. The Penguin and the Pebble is his most critically panned though. But I'm biased toward Rock-a-Doodle if only because it was a childhood film along with All Dog's Go to Heaven, The Land Before Time, and An American Tail.

I agree with you though. Rock-a-Doodle is a mess in certain parts, especially the subplot involving Edmond's farm being flooded. It carried almost no emotional depth and had very little relevance to the plot. It says something when the animated characters were more interesting than their human counterparts. Considering that Edmond's mother was played by the great Dee Wallace-Stone, it's pretty sad, lol.

I agree with you though. Rock-a-Doodle is a mess in certain parts, especially the subplot involving Edmond's farm being flooded. It carried almost no emotional depth and had very little relevance to the plot. It says something when the animated characters were more interesting than their human counterparts. Considering that Edmond's mother was played by the great Dee Wallace-Stone, it's pretty sad, lol.

I agree. I used to like Rock-a-Doodle until I virtually forgot about it and only found it again years later.

Troll in Central Park is a rather wrecked movie, If recall correctly it was so sickeningly light that you really couldn't take it seriously at all (Dom DeLouise voiced the Troll himself, the only performance I can remember)

Theres also Thumbelina. A good way to see how far Bluth fell during those sad times is to compare Mrs. Brisby with Thumbelina's Mrs. Field Mouse. It's pretty painful. Actually, here:

http://www.thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thedudette/nostalgia-chick/6311-thumbelina

If you don't mind swearing, The Nostalgia Chick did a very nice sporking of it. You'll find the Field Mouse segment near the end.

I know everyone here is going to flame me for saying this, but I really don't think Pebble and the Penguin was a bad movie. I've seen better, but it is a masterpiece compared with some of the crap I've been seeing lately.

As for Rock-a-Doodle, I didn't find anything about it that I seriously didn't like about it. Although I admit it was pretty weird at some points. At least it deserves credit for having an original story concept. Even so, I will agree that it was far from being Bluth's masterpiece. That honor will always be the Secret of NIMH.

The thing that annoyed me the most about Rock-A-Doodle was the kid was who played Edmund.

"A Bedtime Story Read By Andy Warhol"
http://thatguywiththeglasses.com/videolinks/thatguywiththeglasses/nostalgia-critic/5452-rock-a-doodle

Despite being a fantastic animator, I think he'll never be known as a "Disney" legend. I think that since his more popular films have been from other various studios, I think he is better credited as being an "Animation" Legend.