Re-invigorating NIMH fandom. How to do it?

Hi guys. I'm hoping this becomes a thoroughly discussed topic.

So...Nimh. Great movie, for sure. But as time goes on we see less and less NIMH related fan pages. They seem to be dropping off the net like flies, whether by lack of interest or whatever. So the question remains. How best to generate more interest in the NIMH universe/fandom?

here's my suggestions...

1. A REAL SEQUEL. As I said before, I'm writing THE POWER OF NIMH ( formerly rats of nimh, see below )right now, only to PITCH. it doesn't mean it's GOING to be made. I work in Hollywierd, and that makes the quest easier...but securing rights, getting a studio interested..or the holy grail, getting Don B himself to sign off...tht's another thing.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c45/beerbeastredux/NImhmovie.jpg[" alt=""/img]

2. Remake NIMH in CG. That's right. I said it. And this coming from ME, a 2D animator. I think if you made the same film, with a few enhancements, in glorious CG, we could attract a whole new, younger audience who only knows PIXAR-like movies...and see 2D animation as old fashioned ( I know people arent gonna like this idea, but I'm intrigued, especuially with this 3D brisby thread. And just think...if they released a 2 disc DVD set. Disc one, the ORIGINAL 2D FEATURE. dICS 2, THE CG REMAKE. )

3. Keep any and all NIMH related fanart on this page and all MAIN pages for a general audience. No porn allowed. We wouldn't want to be labeled a "furry" film, as some people mistakenly refer to TSON.

Those are MY suggestions. What are yours?

I would like to commend your efforts to have a "proper sequel" made. I too think that this would be a great way to keep the interest in NIMH alive and perhaps sustain it for many more years to come. While CG may not be a bad way to go especially for those as you point out are only familiar with Pixar style animation, I still feel that traditional 2D animation would be a better idea simply because I feel that a sequel to NIMH done in 2D would go a long way towards reviving this form of animation to its former glory.

Peace :D
NIMHmaniac

Agreed. NIMH started out 2D, and it should continue 2D. A 3D NIMH just wouldn't be the same.

There's a Danish film called Jungeldyret Hugo. Normal 2D animation, released in 1993, reminds me a lot of Don Bluth, and a sequel in 1996.

After more than 10 years, they made a new film and possibly to capture a new audience it was 3D. So this is a great example of 2D animation making a sudden transition to 3D on a modest budget. Something like 6 million, I can't recall for sure, not a Hollywood budget being a foreign film.

Here are random music videos I found on youtube that have good examples from the first two films:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-Hbag4iSkV0&feature=related
http://youtube.com/watch?v=Etl-ebtFscM&feature=related

After seeing the 2D animation, now take a look at how it translated to 3D:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=j41fZ8rTjrM&feature=related

It's not bad, the humans look decent, but the two main furry characters lost their fluffy look, and other things were off. Some complained the fox's head was too big, and the yellow character lost some of the cuteness, or just never looks right.

The studio that did that 3D animation is working a different film that has better furry looking characters that actually have fur. Here's a trailer in english:
http://www.afilm.com/Contentpage.aspx?id=3&parentid=3&type=Visual%20-%20Feature

Scroll to the right in the images at the bottom of that page to see a trailer of a 2D film they did for just video I think, "Help, I'm a Fish."

I wouldn't entirely rule out 3D, but they'd have to do a lot of convincing for me to think it was a good change. If anything, NIMH was proof you could do a beautiful film in 2D, and I don't see why that should change, especially considering TimothyB's links to that 3D version of Jungeldyret Hugo.

Honestly, I'm thinking a real sequel is something of a pipe dream nowadays. At this point, I'm just grateful that NIMH2 was a flop so that the MGM money machine didn't decide to try to turn out endless sequels, like Universal did with Land Before Time. Or, closer to home, MGM did with All Dogs Go to Heaven (TV Series? Christmas Special? Really?).

As interesting as a fan-produced feature would be, I also know how much work it takes to do even simple animated shorts, even in 3D. Heck, I know someone who's been working on a 3D short on his own for something like 2 years now, IIRC. And that's not even counting all the possible dealings with lawyers and corporate types such a venture might attract. Don't want to sound a pessimist, and I think it'd be really cool if someone even pulled off a decent short, but it just seems kind of far out there.

A sequel COULD be a pipe dream, that much is true. but never forget, with time comes nostalgia. Eventually SOMEONE was gonna remake Lord of the Rings and do it right. Eventually SOMEONE was gonna take unsold japanese anime and remake it into live action aka SPEED RACER. And I have NEVER heard ANYONE say "I hate that film" when you mention NIMH. They always say ( to me at least ) OH! I LOOOOOVED THAT MOVIE!!

basically, there are only so many recognizable properties in the world. NIMH could potentially be one of those films that...is rediscovered by some Hollywood dude, repackaged, and re-imagined ( preferably keeping the wonderful look of the Bluth film. Just so you know, I would want to retain the style, even if it's in 3d. that's what impresses me about timothy B's CG brisby. )

That's why I'm writing THE POWER OF NIMH. because lets face it...we should at least try to make a sequel from the desire and point of view of the fans. You only wish they'd asked some die hard NIMH fans what they thought about NIMH 2. I'm quite certain most of us would have said the same thing.

Given the fact that SO MANY fans spend hours and hours and hours writing fan fiction, I'm surprised thatmore haven't actually considerred writing a GENUINE SCREENPLAY to pitch as a REAL sequel. Granted, a lot of fanfiction is cruddy. but here and there, I've seen real talent.

"Get rid of the songs. Make Mrs. B the main character, or give her a bigger part. And DITCH the "Martin-mad-scientist" drek that caused so many of us to cringe! Replace it with a more dastardly plot on the part of HUMAN scientists, and you'll be on your way to fixing this thing"

Of course, that alone is not enough. STORY IS KING. We'd need to have a solid, compelling, character driven story. Which is what I'm trying to do.

I have NEVER heard ANYONE say "I hate that film" when you mention NIMH. They always say ( to me at least ) OH! I LOOOOOVED THAT MOVIE!!

Oh I've heard one of my best friends say that NIMH wasn't a good movie. Although as a NIMH fan it wasn't the best thing to hear, I ended up having to accept it. But it is true I think, that people tend to mix the definition of a "good movie" and an " economically successful one." Although majority wins in this society, there are MANY who disagree, and that should be taken into account.

we should at least try to make a sequel from the desire and point of view of the fans. You only wish they'd asked some die hard NIMH fans what they thought about NIMH 2. I'm quite certain most of us would have said the same thing.

Given the fact that SO MANY fans spend hours and hours and hours writing fan fiction, I'm surprised thatmore haven't actually considerred writing a GENUINE SCREENPLAY to pitch as a REAL sequel. Granted, a lot of fanfiction is cruddy. but here and there, I've seen real talent.

It's interesting for me because I've been fans of MANY underrated things and IMPO NIMH is such a deep film depending on what fans may think and it would be impossible to generalize what all of the fans want. I agree, NIMH 2 has way too much stuff in it that ignored the feel of the original, hence being far away from what fans expected. The way the film left the whole concept of Thorn Valley to the viewers imaginations really makes the issue harder. I think every single NIMH fan has a different opinion of it. I think the film left so many things mysterious that if someone were to interpret it or make a legitimate sequel, it would end up having to be one person's idea, and no one else's. And this probably goes to every movie. That's why sequels are hard to make unless the makers of the original do it, I mean they're the one's that made the original, they have the right to interpret it their own way and make a sequel out of it.

In conclusion, IMPO no matter how hard ANYONE works on a fanfiction or a sequel, it's from their perspective, and not all of the fans' are represented. Some want Jonathan to be alive (which I'm not against), some don't. Some like the mouse colony, some don't. There are SO many issues that need to be covered in this film, which as I mentioned earlier, is mysterious enough to give viewers a chance to think of their own perspective, and that's the beauty of fan fiction. Sequels tend to cut that opportunity, and although the overwhelming majority of NIMH fans do not appreciate NIMH 2 and don't consider it as an official sequel, that's a VERY rare exception I think.



As for the 3D thing, I agree with Simon. I also think that NIMH is a very important part of the history of animation because it was not done in computer graphics. I think the animated films of this era (70s and 80s) are so deep and meaningful, in addition to the successful use of 2D animation, is most beautiful as the way it is. (The Rescuers Down Under btw, is what I see as an epitome of making a 2D film more beautiful than the original by using technology and by not resorting to 3D)

The whole point of makng a nimh sequel in 3D isn't about whether it's right or wrong, it's about money. CG is exploding around us because it's faster and cheaper to make films that way. Now there are those who will argueto the point, but speaking as someone who spent the first 15 years of his career doing hand drawn I can tell you no amount of wishing and hoping will bring 2D feature animation back..no matter what.

See, by now, it's been roughly 10 years since the studios starterd laying off their 2d animators en masse. Those who havent learned CG are basically doing 2d on their own for the web, or for smaller projects. NOT for feature films. And..sad as it is to say, it's gonna stay that way. We didn't have a huge crop of 2d guys to begin with. The skills were VERY difficult to learn on a master level. But you really don't need to know how to draw in order to animate on the computer. Thus, we now have this glut of proficient CG people. basically, the computer allows non-talents to become animators. Now there are very few practicing 2d guys left in the US, at least.

But I would also like to reiterate that no CG NIMH should be released without the original 2d drawn film included with it.

I think maybe talking about an entire sequel is over the top, or just too much for anyone to consider.

I think it may be more fun to do a short, something pre-conceptual to see whats possible. To see if it can capture the feel of NIMH, adapte the characters to 3D, and what kind of response it gets. One thing I think that would work well is the backgrounds in 3D, that usually always works, but the characters are another story. You might have to change overall design to better fit 3D animation compared to say my too literal version of a 3D Brisby.

Every so often, the movie people in California do listen to the fans. I've heard that people have been begging for years to see a collaboration between Jackie Chan and Jet Li. The Forbidden Kingdom answered their prayers and proved such a collaboration was a good idea.
To connect that to a NIMH sequel: if the fans really want one, there is a chance that it might be made. Note that I said there is a chance. It doesn't mean MGM will surely make another NIMH sequel, it just means they might consider it.

The whole point of makng a nimh sequel in 3D isn't about whether it's right or wrong, it's about money. CG is exploding around us because it's faster and cheaper to make films that way. Now there are those who will argueto the point, but speaking as someone who spent the first 15 years of his career doing hand drawn I can tell you no amount of wishing and hoping will bring 2D feature animation back..no matter what.

That's what's so wrong about many animated films, as well as Hollywood in general, these days. Many studios are in it for the money and not the passion, which is why some of these CG films lack the magic of 2D films. And too many CG films are relying on pop culture references rather than a good story. In my opinion, Pixar is the only studio that has managed to create great visuals and tell a good story at the same time, and they've done this with every single one of their films. And speaking of which, making CG films isn't all that cheap. WALLliE's budget stands at more than 120 million. And Pixar is in fact bringing back 2D with The Frog Princess. John Lassater himself is a big fan of 2D.

And if you want an example of real passion, Don Bluth and his crew spent the first several months animating in his own garage and devoted three years of their lives to making The Secret of NIMH.

Given the fact that SO MANY fans spend hours and hours and hours writing fan fiction, I'm surprised thatmore haven't actually considerred writing a GENUINE SCREENPLAY to pitch as a REAL sequel.

Don't be so sure about that.

Obviously, the answer is to license the franchise to an anime studio. 2D animation is most definitely not dead in Japan. As to keeping to the art style, if they can make the new Armored Trooper VOTOMS faithful to the original 1986 series' look, I'd bet NIMH would pose no problem. Plus an anime styled NIMH would be really, really cool.

Speaking of using anime studios, I just remembered how theres a new Batman animation using famous japanese studios. There was no more than a single still last time I though about it, but just checking, I found a full trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL5H2-iOsUY&feature=related

I wasn't able to hear the audio at work. I don't know how much is spent for this animation, if going to japan was an cheaper. But is not most 2D animation done overseas now-a-days, like Korea? Would it be any cheaper in Japan?

Anime seems to be sufficiently profitable for the Japanese, so I don't think that part would be a problem. Heck, a one-off 30-minute OVA would be perfect. If it does well enough, then you could get the green light for a full-on feature more easily.

Yes, anime works for the japanese, not Americans. NIMH is an AMERICAN animation with an entirely different mindset. Not that it couldnt work...i just think it'd be a tad unsettling.

Don't get me wrong guys, I'd LOVE to see 2D animation again...but it ISN'T gonna happen.

NIMH's artistic style has (to my mind) more in common with anime than stereotypical american animation (which I've hated at least since I was 5). I can still watch it and not feel like it's being condescending.

Better that it stay dead than we get another 'NIMH 2', only in low-budget 3D.

NIMH's artistic style has (to my mind) more in common with anime than stereotypical american animation (which I've hated at least since I was 5). I can still watch it and not feel like it's being condescending.

Better that it stay dead than we get another 'NIMH 2', only in low-budget 3D.

Just curious, what makes NIMH close to anime? I never thought that before.

Don't get me wrong guys, I'd LOVE to see 2D animation again...but it ISN'T gonna happen.

But Marvel and DC have pledged to make 2D animated movies of their superheroes with no content being dubbed down, and thus released faithful features of their old comics such as Superman Doomsday, Justice League: New Frontier, Iron Man, the two Avengers movies, and even more future films such as the Hulk, Next Avengers, Wonder Woman, and so on. Sure they're direct-to-video, but the animation has been really good and the stories are as dark as ever (They are all rated PG-13 so what more could you ask for).

Disney also said at one time they'll get started on 2D animated films again sometime soon, so that's also an approvment. 2D isn't entirely dead yet. :)

I don't mean to sound annoying but I'm completely lost with the argument. We're still talking about a sequel aren't we? I've read the replies and I'm not sure what the core topic is anymore.

From what I can understand of it, the topic was talking about a sequal and having to remake it into the 3D. The discussion of animation format concerning 3D and 2D is now in the process of being debated to the point of which everyone is posting their ideas on each format. Thus, in a reply to a post, I replied that 2D still lives on in some way or another.

One of the key issues of certain topics posted around this forum is the subject of animation. Thus, as always, a discussion of a sequal never goes on without some remark on 3D, 2D, or whatever. 8)

And as I've posted already, Pixar is coming out with a 2D animated film called The Princess and the Frog. So 2D is in fact coming back.

Anything other than 2D wouldn't be true to The Secret of NIMH. And there's a lot more to working on a film than just using the point of view and desire of the fans.

yeah, NIMH was released in 1982. Anime wasn't on american tv then, aside from speed racer. In fact the main influence for NIMH was Disney feature animation.

well if you think about it 2d wont really ever go away. 3d may become more popular but there are certain aspects of 2 deminsional designs that draw fans too it. I really dont think we will ever trully see the end of it

yeah, NIMH was released in 1982. Anime wasn't on american tv then, aside from speed racer. In fact the main influence for NIMH was Disney feature animation.

Star Blazers (Space Battleship Yamato) showed up around 1979, though the first real hit anime was the bizarre conglomeration that is Robotech (around 1985).

While it's obvious anime didn't directly influence NIMH, the extremely detailed art and the dark overall colors to the film seem much more common in anime than domestic animation. Not to mention the violence, something that's (sadly) quite uncommon for domestic animation.

I can't help but notice the constant mentions of Speed Racer and how 'someone would eventually remake it'.

Um, Speed Racer, the film, has been in development since 1992.......constantly stuck in development hell because of constant writer switch-outs. The Wachowskis are not the first people to approach on it.


As for 'not seeing 2d animation again', it seems someone forgot about Disney's upcoming Frog Princess (I refuse to call it "Princess and the Frog--that is not the story's name)---which PIXAR has nothing to do with----...and the fact cartoons on TV are still massively 2D...AND the fact anime is still made...in 2D....AND....other countries local cartoons and films are still made....in 2D.


...you see where I'm going with this.

As for 'not seeing 2d animation again', it seems someone forgot about Disney's upcoming Frog Princess (I refuse to call it "Princess and the Frog--that is not the story's name)---which PIXAR has nothing to do with----...and the fact cartoons on TV are still massively 2D...AND the fact anime is still made...in 2D....AND....other countries local cartoons and films are still made....in 2D.

Just like I've mentioned in two posts. And about Pixar, I should have given more clarity cause I was actually referencing the fact that John Lasseter was very interested in bringing back 2D and was responsible for putting it into production.

(I refuse to call it "Princess and the Frog--that is not the story's name)

I'm more amused at the controversy surrounding the film's heroine. It seemed like everytime Disney gave her a new name, it was viewed as stereotypical. I laughed when I found out that the first name she was given was "Maddy."

I think the TSON fandom is doing quite well when you take everything into account. Its 2D animated, over 20 years old, and had a lukewarm box office performance. Most of its fans came from the VHS release. I just had to reactivate my account due to inactivity, but that doesn't mean I don't watch or talk about the movie all the time. Ever since I rediscovered the movie in 06 I can't get it out of my mind :lol:

I am very content with this little circle here. While I may not be extremely close to anyone, I can tell this is a very tight knit group. People seem to find this place often enough. Every time I come here there seems to be a new member.

I find that given the facts, TSON has a surprisingly big and active "cult following". Spirit: Stallion of the Cimarron is a much newer 2d film that I thought was ok, not amazing, but its fan base seems to be pretty much non existent. I think that movie was released in 2002 and had a 80 million dollar budget, compared to TSON's 7 million (From Wikipedia, could be wrong).

As for a new NIMH movie, I'm not completely opposed to it as long as its done right. I'm sure it would stimulate the fandom a little bit. To what degree I wouldn't know.

As far as I'm concerned, the only reason why the original NIMH movie was... kinda... not so popular among public, than less qualitative Disney pictures of that time - it's commercial! Commercial and adds nowadays, sometimes, are the key to a success, though I hate to admit it myself... Remember Titan A.E.? It was a great movie, but due to poor promotion it became an undoing for the whole Bluth studio!
What I'm talking about, is a production of a remastered version of the original movie! Reducing noise, making a digital HD master-copy, re-writing soudtrack - not changing the magnificent Jerry Goldsmith's score - but recording it in modern multi-channel format... Of cource, all voice talents should remain intact... And after that, launch a huge promotional campaign... The Legend Returns! The Favourite One from Your Childhood! and so on... Make an edition of Mrs Frisby book joined with sequels in a hardback - and we might have a success!!! With proper promotion this movie, remastered but still keeping its warmth and light, can easilly beat any of a 3D blockbusters! IMHO, but I'm sure, this is gonna work!

But to my personal point of view, it should remain the way it is now... After all, didn't I join the fandom after 15 (!) years after watching the movie for the first time? I'm sure others who enjoyed the movie as kids, don't forget it... And they're gonna be sure to show it to the children of their own!
But please, no more sequels!!! And this anime-idea I won't be able to share...

You got a point Mikey, promotion does play a role in how successful a movie is.

Since most animated films nowadays are less mature and more "silly", I think if they made a new Nimh movie, it may attract only the niche group of us Nimh lovers. If they make it "really" good, it just may work out.