Thorn Valley holidays?

I recently wondered about something. What holidays would the rodents of Thorn Valley celebrate and how would they celebrate?

I figure the day they escaped from the lab would be one, the founding of the Rosebush colony and the founding of Thorn Valley would be holidays and they'd probably have picked up a few human holidays from being on the farm. Thanksgiving, Christmas and maybe even Valentine's day.

Any thoughts or suggestions? I'm not sure if this topic has been explored before.

They could probably celebrate the same holidays as we do. :D They probably made their own fireworks for 4th of July, get their own pumpkins to grow for Halloween and most of all, they can celebrate Christmas! :D It would be funny to see them celebrate though, and that old saying for Christmas that a mouse was not even starring but once it comes to the rats and mice of Thorn Valley, then they would. :P
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-Nimhster 8)

I figure the day they escaped from the lab would be one, the founding of the Rosebush colony and the founding of Thorn Valley would be holidays and they'd probably have picked up a few human holidays from being on the farm. Thanksgiving, Christmas and maybe even Valentine's day.

I think that they would definitely celebrate the date that they escaped from the NIMH labs. They might even go so far as to call it "Liberation Day" or something like that. This day would be marked by the ringing of a bell nine times for the nine mice who were "Sucked down dark airshafts to their deaths" during the escape from NIMH. Quiet introspection would be the order of the day as each member of the colony takes stock of where he/she has been and where they would like to go from this point forward.
As far as Thanksgiving and Christmas are concerned, I think that they would celebrate those holidays pretty much the same way that we do but with none of the commercialism that has come to mar the very essence of the holidays in our times.

Peace :D
NIMHmaniac

You've forgotten one crucial holiday: Birthdays. Come on, even the rats must celebrate each other's birthdays. Even if it is a somewhat personal holiday.

Hmm...

Id have to disagree with some of those aspects.
True enough, they would probably have some sort of Holiday of escaping from NIMH. Maybe one for the day Thorn Valley was created(much like our "Town Pride" Days) .
But for them celebrating human holidays the same way we do, can't see them doing it. A lot of our holidays and ways of celebrating them have evolved and changed over time. They may have something that is close to it.
Holdiays are very much a part of a unique culture. Though the rats , borrow quite a bit from us, their culture would be very different, very alien from ours.

For example Christmas is a largely religous holiday ( leaving aside the commericalism for a moment). That and quite a few holidays are based in religon from a human point of veiw. Its improbable that the rats are going to get the same things out of most human religons that we, humans, do.

Then there's American culture Holidays (July 4th, Thanksgiving) and Holidays from our past (Halloween,valentines day) A young culture of intelligent rats probably are not going to indentify with our human way or reason enough to want or need to have a holiday celebrating it. For example, the rats really wouldn't make fireworks to celebrate July 4th, even if they could. Such a thing might draw attention to what the strange noises are and its a fire hazard in summer. Plus there were no rats at the Siging of the Declaration of Ind. How would they identify with that?

More likely they would come up with their own, much like ancient human cultures , just starting out.

So I would say:
Some form of "Liberation Day" (Escape from Nimh)

Thorn Valley Day ( Town festival)

Holiday(s) based on changing of the seasons(connected with planting and harvesting of the crops) ,

A version of Thankgiving (being thankful for the things you have)

A version of Halloween? Possibly. Every culture in the world has some form of it, even if its just a day to honor the dead. They might copy our mainstream customs, ie- wearing costumes, etc just for the fun of it as long as it doesn't use up too much resources or it might be very serious holiday, remebering those who passed on.

A version of Christmas, Hanukauh, etc. Again every religon and culture has had some version of a major holiday at this time and not always for the same meaning. So it stands to reason so would the rats. Most probable that it would center on friends ,family, Gift -giving, helping those less fortuate. In fact, they might even combine Thanksgiving and Christmas.

A version of Valentines day- Interesting one. Every culture starting out puts a HUGE emphasis on children ( making sure the tribe grows and doesn't die out) . Some say most today still do! The rats would definitly be into this idea by thier very animal instincts . Since we're talking about intelligent rats, this would probably be a festival for coming of age single females and males to get introduced(kind of like debutaunte balls) and have opportunity for older ones to find mate( or additional mates, if one really wishes to push how a rat would think).

Then you would have the "personal" holidays. Birthdays, "weddings", funerals etc.

All in all, Id love to see some holidays narrowed down and agreed too. think of all the art, stories, and role-playing we could do concerning them. 8)

You've forgotten one crucial holiday: Birthdays. Come on, even the rats must celebrate each other's birthdays. Even if it is a somewhat personal holiday.

When their birthday comes up, what party do you think they would have? When a rat or mouse has birth, what do you think they would do for them and the newborn?

heres an interesting thought if they established there own holidays would the rats of nimh establish a religion. hmm or would they adapt our religions only modify them. i wonder

heres an interesting thought if they established there own holidays would the rats of nimh establish a religion. hmm or would they adapt our religions only modify them. i wonder

They would probably worship Johnathan.

but how do you know some of the rats would not be buddists? trully if they modified our religion which would they choose?

but how do you know some of the rats would not be buddists? trully if they modified our religion which would they choose?

I didn't say anything about buddhists, but I was actually talking about if they thought Jesus and God was a rat or mouse. If they did modify it, they would take out violence, stealing, murder, and anything else that they would not do forever more.

I think Paul S. Gibbs nailed it in his unfortunately unfinished story, “Survivor’s Guilt,” which can be found at

http//robin.thornvalley.com/node/226

In this story, narrated by a mature Timothy, he describes these three holidays

“The first was Founder's Day, in the early spring; it commemorated the rats' arrival in Thorn Valley, and—much more sadly—the death of Nicodemus. The second, with the oddly religious name of Redemption Day, celebrated the occasion when my mother, armed with the Stone, managed to repulse an attack from NIMH. The third—Liberation Day, which recognized the rats' escape from NIMH, years before I was born—we celebrated on the first of September, because no one really knew the exact date.”

I think it should be modified a bit, but I agree, he definitely did a good job. I think Redemption Day should be on the last day of December or on the first day of January. It would then go along with the idea of a New Year's Resolution, leaving the past timeline to be tampered with for each individual role-play or fan-fiction.

Liberation Day could be the July 4'th for the rats, since it does go along nicely with the general theme of the American Holiday anyways.

Founder's day should be left the same, now all that need be decided, is the exact day. Maybe March 20'th? That is supposed to be the start of spring this year in the U.S.

A few people mentioned religion, I think they should only believe in a heaven simply because life is too empty without its continuation, I don't think there should be any one religion to be decided upon either, ever. It would create too much of a problem amongst everyone, and could very easily offend someone. If even heaven is pushing it, then don't put it in your own role-play or story.

Does all of that sound okay? If anyone is opposed, let me know, I'll try to fix anything you don't like; I am trying to make EVERYONE happy after all.

On the religion issue, I’ve never seen the Rats of NIMH as having a formal set of religious beliefs, let alone adopting Christianity or any other human religion. I think they’d believe in a Creator but not subscribe to any formal doctrine or dogma. All the fan-fic authors whose work I’ve sampled so far seem to share that view.

Here’s an old thread on the subject you might find of interest
http//www.thornvalley.com/commons/forum/viewtopic.php?t=295

Incidentally, ConGie, you needn’t be so concerned about getting approval for your ideas from the rest of us. No one’s views are going to be exactly the same, and though some will agree on some points, you can’t please everybody, as the saying goes.

True, but if we can find a common ground for everyone, it would everything easier. I think we are kinda getting off topic here too, this topic supposed to be on holidays, which I believe we sorta have. There could always be changes made here and there if people don't like it , but I like my tweak to Paul S. Gibbs idea.

I think that from the Fan-Fics and movie the rats who escape from NIMH would have some or at lest a holiday to celebrate their freedom, I did not see them as having a religion, more as having been through NIMH they gained ethics and morals such as one or the group should steal or kill with out cause, they have seemed to mimic a type of social ethics and would set holidays on key moments of their history.

but still a small simple field mouse who may believe in a Creator can say something as "Please dear God No!"

Well put Whiskers, I always thought that line spoke volumes.

Alright, so then we leave religion out of it then? I like that, kills a flock with one stone haha.

Alright, so then we leave religion out of it then? I like that, kills a flock with one stone haha.

It`s not that simple and i wish it was, if I leave religion out, then what becomes of morals, help one another, thou shall not kill or take of a bothers`s which is not mine, and so on, laws that was giving to Moses to the Israelites at the time was hard to obey and they found could not keep such laws, I find the Rats in the same hard choice.

True... Very true... But it's not like we have to explain everything, the movie and book certainly refrained from doing so. Some things can just be left alone such as this. Don't get me wrong, I'm not denying the Ten Commandments or anything like that, I'm a full fledged Christian, I'm on a worship team and everything; I'm just saying we are not required to give a reason for kindness.

Animals in general do seem to help each other anyways, instinct could always be a cause if it so happens that we do need a reason. That doesn't have to be it either, it was just the first thing that popped into my head.

True...

Animals in general do seem to help each other anyways, instinct could always be a cause if it so happens that we do need a reason. That doesn't have to be it either, it was just the first thing that popped into my head.

What makes this so hard is that the rats were given injections of human DNA ? or something else we are not sure, so it`s a best guess, one thing I remember is that in the book as also the movie is that they have enormous hunger to study and be like man, and to make their Civilization as close to ours as possible, we are not really sure what was activated and by what Science was done to the rat`s DNA.
I will have to check out the book again to see if it was human DNA, I do not recall.

I don't remember human DNA being a factor =\ lemme know if it is cause that would mean I would have to redo the formula I wrote out my NIMH fics.

There's no evidence that they were injected with human DNA in the stories. They do say that their DNA was modified, but there is no explanation of or elaboration on this process.

Oh thank God... li HEAVY sighli I was worried for a minute there.

At least one fan-fic author, Chris Silva (who, by the way, began this topic) ran with the idea of human DNA being a part of the formula. In his story “George” he established this, with the NIMH scientist-turned Thorn Valley citizen Dr. George Yardley posing the idea that this was why they emulated human ways so closely. This is probably where Whiskers57 had run across the idea.

“George” can be seen at
http//robin.thornvalley.com/node/28

Another forum topic that might be of interest
http//www.thornvalley.com/commons/forum/viewtopic.php?t=364

I don't really like the idea of human DNA being mixed, it's a very lengthy task to undergo. I don't really think that lab had splicing technology either, at least from the looks of it anyways.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/

The NIMH website doesn't say anything about it from what I saw with a quick glance.

I don't really like the idea of human DNA being mixed, it's a very lengthy task to undergo. I don't really think that lab had splicing technology either, at least from the looks of it anyways.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/

The NIMH website doesn't say anything about it from what I saw with a quick glance.

Well, it liisli a fictional story. You can do what you like with it.

At least one fan-fic author, Chris Silva (who, by the way, began this topic) ran with the idea of human DNA being a part of the formula. In his story “George” he established this, with the NIMH scientist-turned Thorn Valley citizen Dr. George Yardley posing the idea that this was why they emulated human ways so closely. This is probably where Whiskers57 had run across the idea.

“George” can be seen at:
http://robin.thornvalley.com/node/28

Another forum topic that might be of interest:
http://www.thornvalley.com/commons/forum/viewtopic.php?t=364

Thanks, that may be it David, Chris Silva`s fan-fic of “George” I read it about 5 years ago and gave some fed back to Chris about it at the Acorn Cafe and maybe here too about how I enjoyed that read, about the how the rats found them selves (and did not what to admit it) living the morals and culture just as humans did, but it it seems a little faint right now, I should take the time to read it again.

I don't really like the idea of human DNA being mixed, it's a very lengthy task to undergo. I don't really think that lab had splicing technology either, at least from the looks of it anyways.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/

The NIMH website doesn't say anything about it from what I saw with a quick glance.

Well, it liisli a fictional story. You can do what you like with it.

That's true, I REALLY should have thought of that before saying anything.