Power corupts....or cleanses? You decide.

Quote : "I have returned from beyond!"

Yo all!

Well I am back after several weeks (or months) of Drama related coursework (two out of three units done so far).

Now I have haerd from a VERY reliable source (winks) that my input has been missed and I think you all for your passance! I would reply to a few post first but then I thought posting something interesting and here it is:

:?: If Jenner had somehow gained control in the Rosebush (in both the books and movie) how do you think his rule would have effected the way things where going in the valley? :?:

Asuming that NIMH was not comming of course otherwise there will be some short replies!

What do ya think?

My oppinion shall come soon.

L8tr!

Jam.

the fact that it is jenner would make me believe that he would become a ruthless dictator demanding his word to be considered like gods. he would eventualy be the undoing of the rats of nimh.causing suffering and pain throughout his rule.

Hmm... Interesting question. Although, first, I'm assuming that you mean with the Rat colony instead of in the valley, since they would never have gone there in the first place under his rule. Second off, you've got to decide on Jenner's true nature: evil and power-hungry (as the movie seems to make him out to be) or merely opposed to the Plan by virtue of being cynical and pessimistic (as the book says he was)?

If it's the former, I think you'd end up with a typical tyrannical government eventually, although he'd have some challenges maintaining it if enough rats decided they'd had enough--he'd have to share enough power/privilages to maintain a strong guard that is loyal to him to force everyone else to his will, or he'd have to be careful in his manipulations to never go too far in his lust for power and such (unlikely). In either case, he'd have to control any opposing faction, otherwise they'd eventually revolt (by either packing up and leaving or by violence) and he'd have to identify and dispose of anyone who would want to take over and assume his position. Going down that road, I see only tyranny and eventually anarchy as his true nature is revealed and his influence eventually implodes.

The latter one is a bit more difficult to say. In the book, he seems to have no great aspirations to power, he merely believes that the Plan will fail. After all, haven't rats always lived by stealing from humans? Why should we abandon a comfortable home to go live in some wilderness where we would face uncertainty and be fully dependant on our ability to raise crops--which can be affected by a number of factors beyond control, such as crop failure, disease, drought or bad weather, predators, other animals that try to steal from their crops, etc...? Anyway, in the book it says that while a number of rats were skeptical of the Plan, they were willing to try it out. Only a few defected and decided to join his numbers. Thus, there would need to be a major attitude change for the Rats to reject Nicodemus's Plan and stay in the rosebush. Which, even if NIMH didn't come, would eventually lead to their destruction--the farmer already knows they're there, and he's sure to notice as the colony gets bigger that a good portion of his grain stores are missing. And the electric bill is sure to continue rising as well, something that might set off more red flags. Thus, they would come to a juncture where they would need to decide to fight the farmer when he comes to destroy them, or flee him and leave for another place.

Fighting the farmer would be an excersize in futility. First, killing/harming the farmer would just attract attention to the Rats, and likely would result in greater resources than they can combat being brought against them as the US government gets involved. You can be sure that as a result they would be exterminated utterly, with a small possibility that a few rats would manage to escape--but even then, the possibility of them regrouping to form a new colony seems remote. Though it might be interesting to see what would happen to the children of the rats that were scattered.

Fleeing would be the most likely choice, in my mind--even Jenner would have to recognize the futility if/when it came to that. Depending on the situation, it could end up being like the aforementioned scattering, or more like a group exodus like the Plan called for. In that case, where exactly would they go? Another farm? Basically any place that would facilitate their lifestyle of stealing would cause them to be noticed by someone. So if they wished to continue, they'd have to live like fugitives, constantly changing locations as things got too hot for them and never properly settling anywhere. This would probably also lead to a decline in thier civilization, as they would likely no longer have the time to properly teach their children as they constantly are on the move. In the end I think they'd eventually regress and become more or less normal rats with a few advantages when it comes to reasoning and logical thought. And constantly moving would also be risky as it could lead to their discovery as well.

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

It seems like all roads (possibilities) lead to having to leave and supporting themselves regardless of whether or not Jenner was in charge.

If the book says that he was merely against the plan and not particularly evil then it could be an assumption that his rule wouldn't neccessarily be a bad thing if a little stagnant rather.

I lean towards the movie's Jenner. In RL this country just ended a powerbase that would have been very similar to the sort of rule Jenner would have had.

I could see him "purging" his cabinet frequently. There would probably be some kind of frightening 'caste' system in place as well. The Darkest Days stories from Robins site come to mind . . .

It seems like all roads (possibilities) lead to having to leave and supporting themselves regardless of whether or not Jenner was in charge.

If the book says that he was merely against the plan and not particularly evil then it could be an assumption that his rule wouldn't neccessarily be a bad thing if a little stagnant rather.

I lean towards the movie's Jenner. In RL this country just ended a powerbase that would have been very similar to the sort of rule Jenner would have had.

I could see him "purging" his cabinet frequently. There would probably be some kind of frightening 'caste' system in place as well. The Darkest Days stories from Robins site come to mind . . .

i agree with you in that i prefer to lean towards the jener of the movie and about that if it was the book that jenner would not be nessesarily evil. but him as a character i prefer to think as a bad guy.