Yet anouther what if?!!!!

Yo!

I am sure all of you are aware of the recent What if topic posted by me? Well heres anouther one yet with a more interesting and positive inquiry:

Here it is- :?: What if Johnathan had survived druging Dragon? :?:

:twisted: He he he yet more stuff to stew over! :twisted:

My opinion will come soon!

lol, I can't help but answer this one. .

If Jonathan had never died, then the movie would've been very boring to say the least. And Mrs. Brisby would've never found her hidden power, that being none other than her will. Kinda sad that Jonathan had to die for her to find this, but it all worked out in the end I suppose. . .

Yet another alteration that would no doubt totally mess up the plot. . :wink:

--Tzolkin
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Tzolkin stated

1. lol, I can't help but answer this one. .
   
   If Jonathan had never died, then the movie would've been very boring to say the least. And Mrs. Brisby would've never found her hidden power, that being none other than her will. Kinda sad that Jonathan had to die for her to find this, but it all worked out in the end I suppose. . . [/list:u]
   i can't say i agree she may have found out some other way. this would however mean a drastic change in the storyline. it may not be as bad as you thoink it may actualy improve storyline. although my opinion may be one a little biostr c onsidering i want to see a movie about jonathan being my favorite character and all.

Jonathan could be considered my favorite character as well. . However, that doesn't change my opinion, as I believe Mrs. Brisby would've consulted her husband, and he, being quite still in love with her, would've went to the rats instead of her. That would also mean that Mrs. Brisby would never have been captured by the Fitzgibbon child, and would've never overheard that NIMH was coming, therefore the rats would've had no warning, and possibly even Jenner would've succeeded in his plan, if indeed that plan even still existed. . Turning back the clock a bit, Timothy may have never reached the condition he was in in the movie because possibly Jonathan would've recognized the warning signs of the illness. Thus the entire plot falls apart and the movie itself never happened. . A friend once said, conflict is the essence of plot. And in my belief without Jonathan's death, there would've been very little conflict.

--Tzolkin
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Tzolkin stated

1. Jonathan could be considered my favorite character as well. . However, that doesn't change my opinion, as I believe Mrs. Brisby would've consulted her husband, and he, being quite still in love with her, would've went to the rats instead of her. That would also mean that Mrs. Brisby would never have been captured by the Fitzgibbon child, and would've never overheard that NIMH was coming, therefore the rats would've had no warning, and possibly even Jenner would've succeeded in his plan, if indeed that plan even still existed. . Turning back the clock a bit, Timothy may have never reached the condition he was in in the movie because possibly Jonathan would've recognized the warning signs of the illness. Thus the entire plot falls apart and the movie itself never happened. . A friend once said, conflict is the essence of plot. And in my belief without Jonathan's death, there would've been very little conflict.

you dont know that he would have reconized the symptoms until they needed mr ages help at wich time the storie line would change to somthing posibly to were when jonathan trys to get help mrs frisby goes to find him worried about timmy when she spots him heading into the rose bush following him the story of her huspand is then unfolded. that would keep to the same principles with out changing the storyline to a absulute bad thing. perhaps even a good improvement.

What if Jonathan had lived ? I think this story has been done before and rather beautifully, of that whom I speak of is the late great Fan-Fic writer Paul Gibbs who wrote "The Rats of Thorn Valley". In his story Mrs Brisby is tolded by Justin that Dragon killed him (but in fact he is still alive), so the movie would not be changed much at all (maybe showing some of Jonathans doing`s while alive) paul`s story picks up where the movie ends (with jonathan still alive and Mrs Brisby still thinking he had died) I think Paul pulls it off Rather well.I do not to give to story away but you can read it in the new Robin`s NIMH fanfiction archive, if you hav`nt read it yet. :)

Hmmm. Interesting. I don't think it would have made it boring. Far from it actually It would have just made it a very different story indeed. Mayhap it will require a few tweaks though. I'll take the film as a model as I know its polt better than that of the film. Instead of following Mrs. Brisby and her attempts to save Timothy, this task would have fallen to Jonathan. "Aw, that's easy!" I hear you cry, "he would have just asked the rats to do it, and they would have done because he saved them all". Indeed this would seem to be the case, but (and here is where the tweaking starts) the story could become far more about the politics and intrigue within the court of the Rosebush. Not all the Rats were initially happy about helping in the film (until they realised it was Mrs. Brisby), and that would probably be the case here, but the political climate is different, as Jonathan is still alive. Jenner may well attempt to block any efforts to help Jonathan, maybe trying to distract him from other, darker goals that Jenner harbours (did anyone else get the idea that there may have been some history between Jenner and Jonathan?). Nicodemus would obviously be all for helping, but it seemed in the film that he wasn't necessarily in complete control. Jenner felt he was in a strong enough position that he could (to paraphrase) attack Nicodemus and the plan openly. Maybe he could have different aims in this story. Without the guilt of having taken Mrs. Brisby's husband, would that affect the Rat’s decision to help? Could Jenner find some information about Jonathan of his family to use against the mouse and discredit him in the eyes of the other Rats? Anyway, short answer is not really, as they would end up helping Jonathan, the mouse that let them all escape NIMH, but it could be interesting to get all the power gaming between rival factions within the Rats' colony and also would contain far more information of the structure of the Rats' lives. And all that would mean a different climax to the story.

As Tzolkin mentioned, Mrs. Brisby would not have found out NIMH was coming as she was never captured. The ending could now focus not on the Brisby home, but on the Rats' home and the huge and frantic evacuation of the Rosebush as at the last minute they realise that NIMH has found them! Maybe some Rat sentries may have noticed the NIMH truck. Maybe Nicodemus saw it in his oracle. There's definitely a bit of excitement in there for the finale as it falls to Jonathan, who has saved his family, to now come to the aid of every creature in the Rosebush. I'd like to see the power of the Stone go head to head with the power of NIMH science.

Finally, and perhaps most important of all, we would find out far more about the enigmatic Jonathan, how he created the Stone, and maybe exactly why (paraphrasing again) his name is not unknown in the woods.

I hate being labelled as the bad guy but at least the conversation picked up.. Again another reminder of why I liked the book better than the movie. And FYI leejakobson, I never said I did know.. I simply stated it as a possibility. What I meant in my post was you couldn't tweak one thing without tweaking everything else....
:(

--Tzolkin
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(Chuckles) Let me use a quote from what is a rough draft of an upcoming chapter in my fanfiction.


>>>>>>>>>>>
The Director's face contorted as if in pain. Somehow the brown mouse had managed to trigger something deep within him after all. Yet whatever it was that he held locked-up at the center of his being, the entity that inhabited the reborn body of her husband was not going to relinquich its claim this easily.

"Jonathan Brisby is dead!"

How such a warm voice could hiss these words with such utter hatred chilled the air. Whatever remained of Jonathan Brisby, it was no longer facing Elizabeth now. The cold shape in front of her was anything but the loving mate she had know.

"And just like you, all of you, he now belongs to me!"
>>>>>>>>>>>>

Cheers!

Marcus

Interesting. I look forward to that . . .

I like it,
it sounds like there is a not so friendly "some thing" dwelling with in the reborn Jonathan, an entity(like you said), some thing that has gotten deep in him or Its not him at all, you got me interested, this well may be another story were I feal for Mrs Brisby, she goes thru so much in many Fan-Fics :cry: .

Having Jonathan live would definitely change the plot of the movie, but not necessarily for the worst. I feel that it would have been very interesting to see how Mrs. Brisby deals with being told by her husband that their children are the product of altered DNA received at the NIMH labs as he probably meant to do before his death at the hands (err paws) of Dragon the Cat. Would such a mind-blowing revelation cause a strain on their relationship? Who knows?

:) :D Peace

I'm thinking that it would alienate her a little from the rest of her family. Something like that would be tough to swallow. I can't really speculate how she would deal with it but I don't doubt that she would always love him.

I feel that it would have been very interesting to see how Mrs. Brisby deals with being told by her husband that their children are the product of altered DNA received at the NIMH labs as he probably meant to do before his death at the hands (err paws) of Dragon the Cat. Would such a mind-blowing revelation cause a strain on their relationship? Who knows?

Good call. I'd completely forgotten about that aspect of the story in my little summary above. Doh! It would indeed be interesting to see Mrs. Brisby's reaction when Jonathan turns up with a bunch of NIMH rats saying "Don't worry dear. I've got it all sorted. You may want to put the kettle on though..." or something (?).

Also that quote of yours, Mal, sounds interesting. Very interesting. So much good fan fiction out there... so little time.

It would be one of those rare occassions where Mrs. Brisby says: I need a stiff drink . . .

It would be one of those rare occassions where Mrs. Brisby says: I need a stiff drink . . .

Lol!

Well, it looks like the story wouldn't have been as totally messed up as I had once thought. Guess I was a bit creativly disinclined when I first posted. Oh well...

I wonder where Mrs.Brisby would obtain a 'stiff drink'?

--Tzolkin
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Well, that would require knowledge of Jonathan's second legacy to the world. The first was the Stone, the second was... his drinks cabinet, carefully hidden behind the fire place. Mind you Mrs. Brisby doesn't tell him she raids it. It leaves him wondering where all the elderberry wine gets to. This would turn into a source of marital stress later on, after the events of the movie... maybe in the sequel.

The other place she could go is 'The Weasel and Lettuce', the local night spot on the farm (farmer Fitzgibbon’s vegetable patch actually). Run by the kindly, but slightly mysterious badger, Roger, it is the place to go for hazelnut punch. Also try the house salad. It's fantastic! You'll find it under the disused water barrel, just left of the tool shed. Look for the sign that reads "These are MY vegetables!" written in crayon and turn right around. Can't miss it! Brutus is a regular too, but keep him away from the karaoke machine if he's been at the carrot vodka.

... :shock:

I have no idea what that was all about.

Heheheh, we need discussions like this more often IMO. :wink:

Hey, maybe -that's- why Jeremy is such a turkey? Who knows... I wonder if he and his 'Ms.Right' frequent that place, orr.... maybe they run their own, by raiding farmer Fitzgibbon's secret wine cellar through a small aperture in lower wall of the farmhouse?

Hmm, I don't know what Brutus would sound like exactly if he tried to sing but from what I do know it definately wouldn't be pretty, even without the carrot vodka.

--Tzolkin
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Hah ha! It usually helps if everyone has been at the carrot vodka.

Unfortunately Jeremy and his Mrs. couldn't go there. No birds allowed, strictly rodents only. It all started when the Great Owl went in there… Had a little too much of the onion absinthe… picked a fight with most of the clientele… things were said… food chains were mentioned. It wasn't pretty. Long story short he's not welcome in there anymore and he spoiled it for everyone else. The only exception to the rodent only rule is the Seer who does her magic show every Wednesday. It used to be a two creature show before Nicodemus… You know…

If you are of the feathered variety, and you want a nice place to put your claws up, you can't beat 'The Old Elm' in the east woods. Nice traditional place, real quiet. Unfortunately it's in a bad neighbourhood. Don't go there during the twilight hours… Bats, y'know? Plus there's no drinking around the pool tables.

Lol!

But I must ask, who runs 'The Old Elm'? My suspicions say the Great Owl does, since I'd think he'd be pretty ruffled about getting kicked out of 'The Weasel and Lettuce'.

--Tzolkin
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Well, no actually. The Great Owl, after the… unpleasantness at the 'Weasel and Lettuce', gave up drinking and really cleaned himself up. That episode really opened his eyes to his problems, you know. And so, he turned his attention to the Woodland Animal Citizen Advice Bureau. It's all he lives for now. Well that and his successful touring of the woodland nightspots as a Frank Sinatra tribute act.

'The Old Elm' is actually run by a charming fellow by the names of Gerald Proudfeather. A wood pigeon. Damaged his wing, can't fly, but can mix any cocktail heard of east of the mountains. Gerald is of course suitably laconic regarding the whole subject of exactly how he came to break his wing so badly. If you're new to the place and pluck up the courage to actually ask him, he'll stop what he's doing, rest his wings on the bar (his left slightly gingerly, for obvious reasons), sigh and look you straight in the eye. Then after he thinks you've waited long enough he'll mumble something about squirrels and then go and put a song on the juke box. It's always Art Garfunkle's "Bright eyes", and Gerald will refuse to serve anyone until it's finished playing. That's all you’ll get out of him. His wife, on the other hand, says he hurt it hanging a picture in their kitchen.

I think one major difference, if Johnathan lived, might be this.

Mrs. Brisby may have more children than she currently has. ;)

Let me think...

Well, if Johnathan is there...

-Johnathan would not want to introduce the rats to Mrs. B. But I beleive Johanthan won't just leave his son in that position with him still hiding his secret, so in the the timing of the Owl scene, Johnathan would have told his wife the secret, no Nicodemus scene, Mrs. B would of probably had the amulet from the beginning. No Brutus scene. Above all, none of the rats (Even Nicodemus) would probably care about Mrs. Brisby. Instead the rats would help move the block because Johnathan is asking for it.

If Johnathan were here, why would Mrs. Brisby be the main character of the movie anyway?

The "Courage" theme of the movie would have been changed.

The Secret of NIMH would be called "The Rats of NIMH"

etc.

Since I'm volunteering at my sister's friends wedding and have nothing to meaningful to do, why not bump a 6 year old topic?

Since so many fanfics "resurrect" Jonathan in many contrived ways, from him being on a 'secret mission', to being captured by the Fittsgibbins, to being knocked out by the cat and taken care of by barn rats, to being a part of Nazi experiments that allowed him to be teleported away from Dragon, and to being sent to another dimension...pretty much anything short of being resurrected by Jesus himself, I mind as well come up with my own scenario.

If he had lived, there would be no need for the stone, so that automatically gets rid of a plot device.

So let's say that Timmy got sick, hell, let's say that Mrs. Brisby is pregnant with a 5th child so that we can completely focus the story on Jonathan. He goes to Ages and gets the medicine. He meets Jeremy who is entangled by string and quickly frees him before Dragon can show up. He gives Timmy the medicine and realizes that the frost is off the field.

So, they get ready to move. Jonathan brings materials to build a shelter, bringing plenty of firewood. They slowly make their way to the summer home.

Nicodemus, having the ability to predict things (remember, he says that Mrs Brisby will serve the rats of NIMH far more than we to her...he knows that something is up) will shut Jenner up and head to Thorn Valley. Jenner and Sullivan stay behind and get killed by NIMH.

Mrs. Brisby eventually grows old and dies. Before that, she starts asking questions and Jonathan kills her and his family out of madness.....and then kills himself by feeding himself to the cat.

Don't you love happy endings?

You know, shiver, when you write it out like that it seems so obvious. Lulz

Good Bump :lol: