An interesting theory!

So if you read my post on RP ideas earlier, you know I have a keen interest in the predators of Secret of NIMH. They're very strange and unique because, in the Great Owl we see that they can converse with their prey... and that concept makes at least The Owl that much more terrifying.

But what about Dragon? He doesn't seem able to speak, or he simply chooses not to. I wondered why that was? Was he somehow handicapped by the same defect that caused him to be so enormous?

Now I have a new theory that I think covers the difference much better! The only key difference we see between Dragon and all the other speaking animals in the movie is domestication. Dragon is a domesticated cat. I think in the NIMH setting it's conceivable, or even likely that domesticated animals speak a wholly different different language, or in the generations and generations of their breeding they forgotten how to speak, or even had it bred out of them!

Just a fun idea I had in passing while thinking about NIMH, but it seemed to make perfect sense as to how we see Dragon act in the film! Thought you might enjoy thinking about it/discussing it as well!

My own idea has been that the predators choose not to speak directly with those they consider prey. It’s mainly an arrogance issue. In one of my stories which I haven’t posted yet, there’s a scene in which Johnathan Brisby is face-to-face with Dragon and tries to engage him in an actual conversation while protected from harm. “Oh, I know you understand me, but you’re trying to pretend you don’t,” he rails at the cat. “You carnivores are all alike! It’s always ‘Oh, you are so far beneath us because we are the all-powerful predators and you are just the puny little prey.’” Dragon eventually growls in reply, “I…will get you…and kill you…” and Johnathan realizes he’s beating a dead horse.

As for Dragon’s enormity I think that’s something else that could be attributed to artistic license, same as his roaring like a lion. See the forum thread going by that title which I started.

As for the Great Owl…outside of his own kind, I think he would reserve actual conversation with the Rats, the Brisbys and others associated with the Rats, because of his longtime alliance with them. I plan to reveal more about how and why that alliance came about in that aforementioned story.

In Dragon's case I almost prefer to imagine him as a force of nature, something that can't be reasoned with an with an intelligence very alien to the other creatures of the farm. It makes him very frightening in his own right that's quite different from the cool, callousness of The Great Owl.

As for his size, it's a bit outside canon for the film, but the book mentions him being exceptionally large for a cat as well! I always tend to use details from the book to fill in where the film's story leaves a hole or for details the film doesn't actively contradict. That's the same reason I feel like Justin was probably killed saving Brutus after the film's climax... Unpopular as that view might be.

The Great Owl I feel like has a strange and twisted code of honor. He kills only when he's hunting at night. The rest of the time he remains a great source of wisdom for all who might speak with him. Your thought of an alliance is interesting too and I'm eager to hear how you might have had that come about. He did seem to know of the rats and Johnathan and their capabilities.

Either way your portrayal of Dragon sounds interesting to be sure, even if it conflicts with my own view of the character, neither is really contradictory to the film, of course.

One of these days I should probably write some fan-fiction of my own, but I always tend to lose interest as it's not as immersive a medium as roleplay.

Hello,

That's an interesting theory about Dragon! I'd never thought about that before. I'm thinking that you could BOTH be right, and that, in the world of "The Secret of NIMH", domesticated animals could be both snobbish AND de-programmed (IE: Deprogrammed, with regards to being able to talk).

An even more unusual phenomenon occurs during "Balto", because (I'll try to avoid giving away any Spoilers) the popular dog, Steele, speaks to the other dogs, but whenever he's around his master, he barks and pants for approval, just as a domesticated dog would do in the real world.
:idea:

Methinks she's on to something. :o

Also, anyone notice how Steele looks and acts like Jenner?

An even more unusual phenomenon occurs during "Balto", because (I'll try to avoid giving away any Spoilers) the popular dog, Steele, speaks to the other dogs, but whenever he's around his master, he barks and pants for approval, just as a domesticated dog would do in the real world.

That's actually something of a tradition in Disney and other animation, in features where there are both human and animal characters. The animals talk and interact with each other in a humanlike fashion, but they'll behave more like their real counterparts around humans. 101 Dalmations, Lady and the Tramp, All Dogs Go to Heaven are good examples, as well as TV series like Rescue Rangers.

Also, anyone notice how Steele looks and acts like Jenner?

Some years ago, there was some commentary—it may have been on Siskel & Ebert, or Ebert & Roeper—about what appeared to be a trend of “color-coding” of villainous characters in animation. I haven’t seen Balto in a while, but is Steele given a dark-complexioned look? If so, he’s in company with the heavies in The Lion King and The Pebble and the Penguin (two examples cited that I remember), and yes, with Jenner too. It was speculated that there could even be some kind of subtle racism there. I won’t argue that point one way or the other, but it is the kind of thing that tends to throw up a red flag (or black flag) to viewers. From the character’s first on-screen appearance, there’s no doubt as to who’s going to turn out to be the villain of the piece.

From the character’s first on-screen appearance, there’s no doubt as to who’s going to turn out to be the villain of the piece.

That's my big problem with having evil Jenner in the movie. He looks like he's possessed by a demon, which funnily enough is kinda what you were doing in your stories. Thing is, sociopath villains would be much more frightening and effective if they were subtle and given more of a lighter color palette than the stereotypical dark palette they're typically given. Make them so the audience trusts them, that way when they do the evil deed, it's that much more effective.

In the fanfic that I'm working on, I'm trying to develop Jenner so that he slowly becomes a sociopath. I'm also planning to go further into the inner workings of his mind and show him go to the breaking point of sanity until he gets rid of the human emotions that the NIMH treatments gave him (slowly taking the human out of him as he would say).

If you want to make an evil character, you got to set his motivations straight. Jenner killing Nicodemus so that the plan would die is not a realistic motivation in my book. There were clearly other rats who would've kept the plan going. It's clear that the council was still warring over the subject. Now, if the rats were on the verge of civil war over the issue of The Plan and killing the leader would create that spark which would start the war, then that would be an interesting motivation. If I ever right a sequel to the events of the movie, I will surely touch on this subject.

I can certainly see that, David, I would actually say the same thing about Scar from The Lion King with his sinister green eyes and darker fur, even his angular features and toothy grin. He looks a lot like Jenner!

Three dimensional villains are great. In Jenner's case he probably genuinely believes that the journey to Thorn Valley would be dangerous and that the rats would never be able to achieve as great a lifestyle as they might living alongside humans. He was a bit over-the-top, though I think largely it had to do with as you said him being pushed past his breaking point, and having a very foul temper.

Still the Jenner in the movie was quite a bit better than the Jenner in the book, who never even made an appearance!

As for the talking animals, clearly they understand English and English writing, and can speak the same language but are unable or unwilling to communicate with humans. That's really just a common trope with talking animals, but if you really need to ground it in something realistic, mice actually sing to attract mates in frequencies far above humans' range of hearing. Perhaps our heroes speak in the same frequencies!