Justin and Brisby: couple or no ?

Well ever since the "The Kiss" picture showed up, I've been wondering; Should Justin and Brisby have a relationship or just remain freinds? Sure it seems kinda weird (mouse/rat), but it just seems that they might become a good couple. What do you think?

http://www.thornvalley.com/gallery/studio/albums/album07/388howbeautifulA.jpg[" alt=""/img]

That's just the beauty of it: Nobody can really know at this point.

The entire movie left us guessing about so many things and I feel that this fact has been important in endowing TSoN with the mystery that perfuses it.

After all, together with the similarity between the Great Owl and Nicodemus, the questions about The Stone, there were many unexplained venues in this movie.

I think that is part of the movie's allure.

Marcus

Agreed.

I think that a good story should always leave the audience guessing.

There have been many stories that take this form of developemant such as:

"The Lord of the Rings"
"The Secret of Nimh" (of course)
"The Matrix"
"Terminater3"
"Predater2"
"Star Wars" (The whole of the series)

These are just a few of such films, personally I will that if I had to type out a list of ALL of them it would be in a word..........endless.

NOW then, Mrs B and justin couple or not well, well, well that is a good question.

In my oppinion I do NOT think they would have been a "couple" of sorts but much rather like "friends". I have observed that many Nimh fans say the same thing for just about the same reasons. In the "Kiss" scene shown above at the start of this topic I think that Mrs Brisby came to see Justin as a rat of Charm, Politeness and generaly a very well spoken and charismatic individule who perhaps in some way reminds her of Johnathon.

Justin I believe would have seen Mrs Brisby as a shy and well manerd person who knows nothing of there world but then eventualy comes to realize that she is more then a simple meek mother mouse.

I think that this question should not answered by someone who is not involved but only by Mrs. Brisby, Justin and Mrs. Brisby´s children. If they all want a relationship between Mrs. Brisby and Justin, I see no problem in it, if they only want to remain friends, I see no problem either.

there does seem that posibilitie in ther first movie but the second kind of leaves it blank i think they should of done a better job

Some questions are better left unanswered....

-Tzolkin
ﺶﺞﻚﷲ

true but i would rather not leave this question unanswered

I think they should be a couple. Though not right away. Over time I think they would have formed a bond and it would have been inevitable that they would accept each other as more then friends.

Okay then...

Personally I don't see it happening, though from the looks they gave one another there when they first met, it might be a possibility. . . like mal said, can't really tell at this point.

--Tzolkin
ﺶﺞﻚﷲ

To be honest, I still don't understand why people get the idea of Justin having a crush on Mrs. Brisby. My answer to the question is no. My personal reason is that I am a fan of Johnathan and I believe that Mrs. Brisby will never forget about him no matter what happens. I just like the image of Mrs. B going with Johnathan. It seems that Mrs. Brisby appreciated Justin. He was being very nice to Mrs. Brisby. But I don't really think they should be a couple. I prefer Mrs. Brisby thinking about Johnathan.

By the way, does anyone know of a link to "The Kiss" ????

I'm afraid that I have to agree with Mal & Jam when they refer to "a certain allure of the movie by leaving that question unanswered" and with Jam's statement that "A good story should leave the audience guessing." It kind of reminds me of an ad campaign back in the 60's for (I think it was Miss Clairol brand hair coloring). The line went something like this.... Does she or doesn't she??

Peace :)
NIMHmaniac

While the "it's beautiful" scene held a few emotions there, it was never pursued any further in either movie, so I don't think it likely they ever be together.

Personally, I've always enjoyed the allure of the Justin/Mrs. B ship. There was a connection in the movie that wasn't established in the book, done very well through mainly physical/visual cues. Besides, Strauss did a wonderful job of sensualizing his voice in the above pictured scene. This is an excellent example of why movies work best when they leave shipping questions unanswered, unless that ship is vital to the movie.

As I’ve said on another posting, I’ve never seen that scene as involving genuine flirting, especially since there were no other scenes that push the idea forward. As to thecircusbear’s question about a link, I can direct him to two versions of that scene, though it's not the original sketch

http//browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&global=1&q=AuroraGriffin

As I’ve said on another posting, I’ve never seen that scene as involving genuine flirting, especially since there were no other scenes that push the idea forward. As to thecircusbear’s question about a link, I can direct him to two versions of that scene, though it's not the original sketch:

http://browse.deviantart.com/?qh=&section=&global=1&q=AuroraGriffin

Thank you my friend!

I remember seeing some of Aurora Griffin's art on the late Maximum Nimh website. Those were the good ol' days!

I remember seeing some of Aurora Griffin's art on the late Maximum Nimh website. Those were the good ol' days!

Same here

Think about the context for a bit. Justin starts out by admiring the fact that she is Jonathan's widow. "Mrs. Jonathan Brisby! It is an honor and a privilege, my lady." Mrs. Brisby is flattered by his respect and charisma, not to mention the fact that he's the Captain of the Guard. This causes her to look flattered. She simply sees him as a rat of respect and honor. Same thing with Justin's expression to Mrs. Brisby because she is the widow of a respectable mouse and friend to the rats.

I see no romance between the two and I'm kinda shocked that there's a lot of fanfiction pairing these two together. It's kinda cliche for him to leave his duties as Captain in order to pursue his friend's widow.

Shivermetimbers has a good point, as well as a good speculation (in my opinion).

Id also like to mention that the thought of a rat and a mouse getting together kinda creeps me out. I can see a very close friendship forming, but there wouldn't (or shouldn't) be any sexual tenderness between the two. Id much rather Justin be with Isabella because it just seems right.

I, along with a few other fan-fic authors such as Chris Silva and Megan Lucas, was always a Justin-and-Isabella booster, though as I mentioned elsewhere, I thought Gibbs handled the Justin-and-Brisby matter well in his stories. Silva does have a mixed couple (Luke and Laura) in his stories, and in one of mine, set later than “Search,” I have one as well—though in both cases it’s a male mouse-female rat pairing. If it were vice-versa, well—how to put this in a PG forum?—sexual intimacy might indeed be a problem.

Based on the actual NIMH experiments, this quote:

If it were vice-versa, well—how to put this in a PG forum?—sexual intimacy might indeed be a problem.

Is extraordinarily accurate. I'd like to point out that the success of the mouse population the world over is based on how 'busy' they are, as much as (or more than) the rats. But yes...very, -very- accurate.

As for me, I've always held a soft spot for Justin/Mrs. Brisby.

Think about the context for a bit. Justin starts out by admiring the fact that she is Jonathan's widow. "Mrs. Jonathan Brisby! It is an honor and a privilege, my lady." Mrs. Brisby is flattered by his respect and charisma, not to mention the fact that he's the Captain of the Guard. This causes her to look flattered. She simply sees him as a rat of respect and honor. Same thing with Justin's expression to Mrs. Brisby because she is the widow of a respectable mouse and friend to the rats.

I see no romance between the two and I'm kinda shocked that there's a lot of fanfiction pairing these two together. It's kinda cliche for him to leave his duties as Captain in order to pursue his friend's widow.

Your contextual analysis is plausible, and to an extent I agree. I'm not sure why, though, but I always found that the 'beautiful lights' scene held or created some sort of spark between Justin and Mrs. Brisby. Was it love? Not really sure, don't entirely care, but it was something that a lot of people - myself included - felt to mean a genuine attraction. Let's not get hasty and generalize this to love, but there was something there that spoke attraction, at least for me.

As for the fanfiction...well, I would point you to Sturgeon's Law[=http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SturgeonsLaw]Sturgeon's Law. Few writers actually think their material through to the extent that they should, and to be honest I think that the Secret of NIMH fanfictions are largely exempt from Sturgeon's Law (I've read a fair few very good stories here). But, keeping with the topic, romance is something that is very hit and miss with certain fans, and is hit and miss with how well it is done. More often than not people will just throw a couple together for fantasy service and not considering the implications, or consider the implications but manipulate them (inadvertently, sometimes) such that they don't keep with characterization. The Justin/Mrs Brisby romance is, I feel, one of those; a lot of writers try to force them together when, as you've pointed out, the basis for the entire romance is...a stare. Perhaps I'm employing reductio ad absurdum here, and I've read/seen worse bases for romance, but that does seem more than just a tad weak.

I'm not shocked - as I say, I've read worse and weaker stuff - but I'm still extremely wary when I read Justin/Mrs Brisby works. They oftentimes feel contrived, forced, and just are not done very well. I'm still a yes - I think there was a spark there - but I wouldn't make definitive statements on whether they would get together. I enjoy seeing the pairing written well, moreso than other Justin/X or Mrs Brisby/Y pairings, but I'm a cautious soul and, at risk of sounding patronizing, would urge others to be cautious as well. shivermetimbers has a very good point.

Yes....there may have been a spark, but assuredly just a flight of fancy and no more, and once you sit down and bring genetics into the equation, you'll find a mouse and a rat aren't a possible pair. And, (humoring us dedicated fans) I'm sure it would have crossed both Mrs Brisby's and Justin's mind about the before mentioned problem, before anything serious would've developed. Agreed?

Even though Gibbs did the best possible job he could, the romance between the two still felt simultaneous and somewhat forced. She ended up appreciating what Jonathan went through to keep the family together and she stayed with him, so they technically weren't a couple.

Going back to my contextual analysis, Gibbs set it up in a way that I find interesting. Mrs. Brisby was glad to feel safe, she felt the safest since Jonathan's "death" and in a way, Justin reminded Mrs. Brisby about Jonathan. I think it's impossible to write these two as a couple without somehow adding the fact that the only reason that they would be together is because Jonathan made it possible.

To me pairing a rat and a mouse together is like pairing a human with a monkey, you don't do it, even if you can relate on an emotional level.

I kinda like the idea of Mrs. Brisby finding another mate if only because her children and her late husband aren't ordinary mice. It's certainly the better of the two options that fan fiction writers constantly write about. One being Mrs. Brisby and Justin being together and the other is having Jonathan coming back from the dead.

The first one stemming from the fact that a mouse and a rat together in bed is like putting a monkey and a human together in bed. The second from being contrived and lacking creativity.

Id also like to mention that the thought of a rat and a mouse getting together kinda creeps me out. I can see a very close friendship forming, but there wouldn't (or shouldn't) be any sexual tenderness between the two. Id much rather Justin be with Isabella because it just seems right.

My preference would be to follow the book. Pair Justin with Beatrice, Martin with Breta, etc.

Mrs. Brisby? I'm sorry, but I just can't see her with anyone but Jonathan. What I'd like to see is this: at the end of the day, Mrs. Brisby looks at her greying fur, thinking it good, as she's getting closer and closer to Jonathan every passing day. Just mentioning it. No resurrecting Jonathan, no killing off Mrs. Brisby. It's sweet, in a way.li

Steven

liThe opinion in this paragraph has no influence on my fanfic.